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本帖最后由 湘江河 于 2009-12-19 01:44 编辑

看了图片,这只低音设计太极端了。

导磁钢板薄,音圈长度超过音圈直径
这哪会出声,只会吹风出来嘛。


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风是会大,就不到声音如何,应该先找个吃螃蟹的人
岁月尘封住不尽的往昔,影像却可为我们打开一扇记忆的天窗

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现代单元多为箱体而设计,冲程长,Q值低,动态宽,需要箱压出低频,装上障板低频不足.

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本帖最后由 turboguy 于 2009-12-19 11:59 编辑

关于单元,AE推荐了几款,并且报了价格,请大家讨论:感觉Dipole系列是他真正推荐的最佳障板单元,价格比较高。大家拿主意。
Hi turboguy,

There are the drivers you can use for open baffle :

IB10, IB12, IB15 are 149$ per driver (slightly less for smaller sizes but
not much less) or 4x for 500$. Very good sound quality up to 300 Hz without
EQ, even higher with EQ. Usually used for infinite baffle, but they are
affordable and some people prefer their lower Qts of about 0.707

OB10, OB12, OB15 are 149$ per driver (slightly less for smaller sizes but
not much less) or 4x for 500$. Very good sound quality up to 300 Hz without
EQ, even higher with EQ. Similar design as the drivers above but usually
used for open baffle and they are affordable. They have a higher Fs, lower
mms and a higher efficiency.

Dipole10 (slightly less than Dipole12 but not much), Dipole12 (289$ per
driver or 528$ for a pair), Dipole15 (309$ per driver or 568$ for a pair).
Excellent sound quality up to 1 kHz without EQ, even higher with EQ, up to
about 2 kHz. Superb midrange. These drivers are one of the best open baffle
driver you will find at any price, large underhung motor design, flat BL
curve, extremely low distortion, good Xmax of 12mm one-way, Qts of nearly
1. They have less power handling due to the underhung motor, but open
baffle usually doesn't need much power per driver to reach full excursion
.

If you are doing open baffle for the midrange too, you can also consider
the LO10, LO12, LO15. Excellent sound quality up to 2 kHz off-axis, 4 kHz
on-axis, even higher with EQ.These are an hybrid of a Dipole driver with a
TD-M driver, they are designed for extreme midrange performance. They have
an accordeon cloth surround, very high efficiency, ultra low mms. On the
other hand, they lack enough excursion to do really deep bass, so it's more
of an exclusive midrange/midbass driver. They also have lower power
handling due to the underhung motor of the Dipole driver.

What do you want to know ? Do you want complete T/S parameters ?

Here's are the Dipole parameters :
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2375

Here you can read about the IB15 :
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=536

Here's are IB15 specs :

Fs: 16Hz
Qms: 6.8
Vas: 439L
Cms: .45mm/N
Mms: 220g
Rms: 3.239
Xmax: 18.5mm
Xmech: 25mm
Sd: 830sqcm
Vd: 3.07L (p-p)
Qes: .78
Re: 5.5ohm
Le: .33mH
Bl:12.49
Pe: 500W
Qts: .7
1WSPL: 86dB
2.83V: 87.3dB

Here's are the OB15 specs :

OB15
Fs: 29hz
Qms: 4.6
VasL 257L
Cms: .25mm/N
Mms: 120g
Rms: 4.71 kg/s
Sd: 851sqcm
Vd: 3.07L
Qes: .75
Re: 5.32ohm
Le: .25mh
Z: 8ohm
Pe: 300W
Qts: .64
1W/1m 91.4dB

And the LO15 :

AESpeakers OB15
Fs: 33.8Hz
Qms: 19.4
Qes 0.86
Qts 0.82
Vas 311 Liters
Cms 0.3 mm/N
Mms 74 grams
Sd 855 cm2
Rms .81 Kg/S
Bl: 7.5 T/m
Re: 3.1ohms
Z 4 ohms
Le 0.0375 mH
Pe (max) 100 Watts
Pe (transient) 250 Watts
1WSpl: 93.5 dB
2.83V: 97.6dB
Linear Xmax 9 mm (peak)
Mech Xsus 12 mm (peak)

Hope to have helped you a little bit !
simon5

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本帖最后由 turboguy 于 2009-12-19 12:01 编辑

他马上又发来另外一个Email :提到障板的最佳单元还是Dipole系列,主要是适合小功率的胆机。
Hi again turboguy,

John would prefer you to use this information instead for your forum post,
since OB and LO line are in the process of being discontinued because they
were usually custom orders and only a few people were interested. Instead,
he wants to concentrate his energy on the Dipole line, the TD line, the AV
line and IB line which are all huge sellers.

He also thinks that you and your friends would prefer the Dipole line over
everything else, since you are into tube amplifiers and such. He asked me
to put more emphasis on the dipole line, which I did
.

Tell me if this is wrong to you.

Thank you very much and sorry for the earlier email,
simon5

-----------------------------

Hi turboguy,

There are the drivers you can use for open baffle :

Dipole10 (slightly less than Dipole12 but not much), Dipole12 (289$ per
driver or 528$ for a pair), Dipole15 (309$ per driver or 568$ for a pair).
Excellent sound quality up to 1 kHz without EQ, even higher with EQ, up to
about 2 kHz. Superb midrange. These drivers are one of the best, or the
best ever open baffle driver you will find at any price, large underhung
motor design, flat BL curve, extremely low distortion, good Xmax of 12mm
one-way, Qts of nearly 1. They have less power handling due to the
underhung motor, but open baffle usually doesn't need much power per driver
to reach full excursion. People will usually use multiple of those if they
can afford to do it.

These Dipole speakers are used in this audiophile speaker company :
http://www.lotusgroupusa.com/Granada.htm

That speaker is worth more than 150 000$ per pair and it received multiple
"Best of Show" awards at RMAF 2009.

What do you want to know ? Do you want complete T/S parameters ?

Here's are the Dipole parameters :
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2375


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can't afford or couldn't explain such a large expense to your wife
or yourself, there's a cheaper alternative that some people use. Dipole
drivers are by far the best but you could also use IB10, IB12, IB15 are
149$ per driver (slightly less for smaller sizes but not much less) or 4x
for 500$. Very good sound quality up to 300 Hz without EQ, even higher with
EQ. Usually used for infinite baffle, but they are affordable and some
people prefer their lower Qts of about 0.707

Here you can read about the IB15 :
http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=536

Hope to have helped you a little bit !
simon5

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他提到的Granada的图片和指标:使用的就是他们的12寸dipole低音
Specifications:

Open Baffle Design
Feastrex 5” Field Coil Drivers and Power Supply
2 - 12” Dual Voice Coil Woofers
State of the Art Digital Crossover
State of the Art Room Correction Available Frequency range 25hz to 20k
Efficiency 92 db
Wired with Acrolink 99.99997% pure copper wire and Oyaide PCOCC-A pure copper wire
Dimensions: 22” Wide, 54” Tall, 16” Deep

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他推荐的Dipole 10寸到15寸的规格参数:
Dipole10, Dipole12, Dipole15 parameters
by stryke » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:10 pm

The Dipole series are designed specifically for open baffle/dipole use. In an open baffle, excursion requirements are much greater for any given SPL level than they are in a sealed or vented enclosure. As a result, a woofer is needed with a large degree of linearity both in the BL and Le curves. The underhung motor of the Dipole series is ideal as it offers both extremely flat Bl and inductance. This keeps parameters consistent throughout the excursion range and keeps the drivers sounding just as good at high levels as they do at low volumes.

Due to the underhung motor design, the power handling on the Dipole series is lower than our other drivers. However, in an open baffle the power requirments to move a driver to high excursion are also lower. These drivers are typically used in multiples per channel to provide the extra volume displacement and output required when dealing with the large rolloffs from an open baffle. These drivers have some of the best midrange performance of any of our drivers as well. They can be called upon when needing to cross much higher in frequency than is possible with a typical woofer. They are currently available in dual 8ohm coil.

DIPOLE10 (coils in series)
Fs: 25.9Hz
Qms: 11.0
Qes: 0.73
Qts: 0.68
Vas: 118 Liters
Cms: 0.7mm/N
Mms: 54.6 grams
Sd: 345 cm2
Rms: 0.81Kg/S
Bl: 12.2T/m
Re: 12.3 ohms
Z: 16ohms
Le: 0.15mH
Pe(max): 200Watts
1WSpl: 90.1dB
Xmax: 12mm

DIPOLE12 (coils in series)
Fs: 25.9Hz
Qms: 11.0
Qes: 0.73
Qts: 0.68
Vas: 273 Liters
Cms: 0.7mm/N
Mms: 55 grams
Sd: 530 cm2
Rms: 0.81Kg/S
Bl: 12.2T/m
Re: 12.3 ohms
Z: 16ohms
Le: 0.15mH
Pe(max): 200Watts
1WSpl: 90.2dB
Xmax: 12mm

DIPOLE15 (coils in series)
Fs: 21.7Hz
Qms: 15.2
Qes: 1.00
Qts: 0.94
Vas: 623 Liters
Cms: 0.7mm/N
Mms: 90 grams
Sd: 830 cm2
Rms: 0.81Kg/S
Bl: 12.2T/m
Re: 12.3 ohms
Z: 16ohms
Le: 0.15mH
Pe(max): 200Watts
1WSpl: 90.1dB
Xmax: 12mm

John*******************************************************************************
Acoustic Elegance/AE Speakers
1825 Mills St
Green Bay, WI 54302
phone: (920) 469-9198stryke
Site Admin
  
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 6:54 pm
Location: Green Bay WI
Private messageE-mail strykeWebsiteMSNM/WLMICQYIMAIM

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好像12寸的好一些

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本帖最后由 turboguy 于 2009-12-19 12:24 编辑
好像12寸的好一些
舔血的微笑 发表于 2009-12-19 12:03



    价格也不便宜:
Dipole10 (slightly less than Dipole12 but not much), Dipole12 (289$ per
driver or 528$ for a pair), Dipole15 (309$ per driver or 568$ for a pair).

12寸人民币3600一对,15寸就4000了。
还没加运费关税。

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Dipole15的Qts: 0.94 ,不知上障板,效果如何呢?

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